Category: Let's talk
So today, I received a wonderful package from a dear friend of mine with a Greek military jacket inside. She went to Rhodos as a student, bought it for me and shipped it from there. She even sewed the flag on the left sleeve, as is customary. Of course, it doesn't have the emblem on it, cause civilians aren't permitted to wear that, which is understandable, but it's the exact same colour and style used by the Hellenic military. for me, this isn't just a matter of being cool or of liking the military style of clothing. . When I wear it, it'll be a status of my patriotism, of the support I have for my country's soldiers and generally of the pride that I feel when wearing such an item. So how many of you own military-style clothing? Do you wear it? Why or why not? What does it mean to you? If you could (assuming you haven't), would you join the military in any capacity? Keep in mind that his doesn't mean necessarily as a combatant. as for me, I'd certainly join if I were a citizen of Greece and could do so.
I don't know if this counts but when September 11th happened, I got all these flags and sewed them on to some clothing.
I did it because I was mad at the bastards who caused it. It was a knee-jerk reaction and I would never join. I am not all that patriotic.
I always wear my flag pin when I go out and have a few other items of clothing with the flag on them. They make me happy and proud.
I think if I always had my flags I'd be shot. I already get looked at sideways.
I like my Canadian Olympic Hockey shirt and American Flag pins best of both worlds I guess.
Margorp, why would you be shot? Americanadian1 interesting name and idea. Seems that you're loyal to both countries. I've often heard of double flag pins, with one flag on one side and the other on the other side. Personally, I choose to wear the flag of only one country but I can see how this might be attractive to those who feel as you do. But here's a question. of course, if you don't want to answer, tht's fine, but I wonder this about people with multiple countries. Which country would you support more in a war or conflict? What if, as unlikely as it seems, the two countries fought? Who, if anyone, would you support? This goes for anyone in a similar situation.
Wow, that's a hard one there eh? I'm not sure, since my mom was born in Newfoundland and some family was born in the States. Oh man you got me there now lol! I think I'd have to stay a wee bit neutral you know eh?
I like the military style of clothes. YOu know the brass buttons etc. I would never wear anything like that as I figure I don't deserve too. I didn't make the sacrifices the people who wear it have made.
I find it strange how national pride is so linked to the military.
Sure the U.S. military is great and extremely well funded and proud, but I think the true expansion of the U.S. has been through research, innovations and the willingness to work hard and explore ideas.
The internet may have been invented in Switzerland (well, as part of the CERN project) but it was U.S. based companies and people who turned it into the lifestyle it is today. Same with tv, fast food (hey, I am not saying we should be always proud of all of these), but most of all through giving people with bright ideas and work ethic the chance to make it big and change the world.
If we look at the military history of the last 50 years, Vietnam was a bit of a disaster, the Korean war was neither lost nor won, really lost as it ended up with Korea split but the border completely unchanged, the Iraq invation, which has not exactly been an astaunding success. Other minor victories were certainly won, sometimes just the U.S., sometimes with allies. But the Soviet Union fell more through economic voes, corruption and lack of rewarding innovative hard workers than through any military means.
But in these 50 or so years the U.S. has come from a bit of an underdog status through the most powerful nation in the world (for now), clearly not through war but through, well, being cool, think movies, technology and what I mentioned above.
So I am not a big fan of the military myself and do not consider military clothing an emblem of national pride. The flag may be, or wearing your university clothes, to celebrate your work there and what the university has contributed nationally and internationally. The military is too big, not effective enough and, I think, too aggressive in the world, no disrespect to the hard working and loyal men and women in it of course. Military clothes are emblem of aggression and death, no matter who wears it and I find little pride in that. Of course sometimes such things are necessary,, I am not saying that should be overlooked.
But not to steer this way of course, I am not a U.S. citizen, nor perminant resident, but I find myself cheering for the U.S. when watching international competitions against most countries, because I am beginning to consider it almost as much a home as my native country, more so in some respects.
And that brings me to the other part of what I meant to say. I think you only find out about your loyalties when faced with the choice. My wife spent 8 years in Canada and was not sure which nation she would cheer for when they met at the Olympics but realized she went for the U.S. because she feels more at home here than she ever did back there.
We would both go for our native countries in matches vs the U.S. and who knows if the countries went to war (very unlikely since they are allies in most matters anyway).
wildebrew, I love your points here. You are extremely well educated and I agree with most of your post. I do think people think of the military too much. I think that is why americans are so hated. As an American born person, I feel sometimes that America sees itself as better than every other country and sometimes extremely arrogant. I also feel that in the States disabled people are not as accepted as they are in Canada or the UK or other nations. I think America is really violent as a nation as well. I side with Canada on several things and that is why it is my home now with my Mom born there and all as well.
I wouldn't be shot but I'd be labeled more of an outcast. Besides, I believe the military goes to far.
Good point there about neutrality. It makes the most sense to me, so that you don't offend anyone. Turricane, I kind of thought the same thing at first. But I look at it this way. I can't join, since I'm not a Greek citizen and I'm blind. (That might not be an issue if I were a citizen but not sure so had to add it.) This is the closest that I could get. I wear it out of support and love for those who fight for freedom and those who've died for it and for my nation in general. I think the U.S. has done more harm than good in most things but they did create some nice ones. I just wish they'd stop poking their noses in where it didn't belong and trying to force other cultures to adopt their ways. americanadian1, I'm so glad you see their arrogance and pushiness. They are extremely violent, as you said, which is not a good thing. They use their military itself as a threat against other nations. You don't get that stigma with the Greek one. Yes, all men who are able and of a certain age must serve but we don't go around starting wars and such. It's true that we've got troops around the world, including Afghanistan, but that's with NATO or a similar group, not on our own. We're basically there to keep the peace. Our last real war was probably World War II and then the civil war which followed. As for which country to support, there's only one country for which I'd be willing to give my life and that's the Hellenic Republic aka Greece. So if the two should ever go to war, you could be sure I'd not have a hard time choosing. Thankfully, as with Canada, this is also unlikely.
Tiff, weren't you born in the U.S? You seem to pledge more elegence to Greece.
Yes, I was born in the U.S. and my allegiance is pledged only to Greece. *smile*
Hmmm isn't that treason?
Maybe and maybe not. In either case, my view will not change. If America actually has the freedom that it claims to have, then you should be able to declare allegiance to whomever you choose, so long as you dodn't harm anyone, don't plan a government overthrow etc. I don't intend on harming anyone and my only strong gripe against the government is that it's slowly taking away freedoms from the people. But I wouldn't spend my time trying to overthrow it. I intend on leaving this country as soon as I gain a few more independnece skills, have some money in my pocket and secure a job in Greece. The first I'm working on now and the money, who knows? As for the job, there's a strong chance of it happening. I just need to finish these language lessons, and I'm almost there. I need this because I have to obtain my working visa and residency permit and that's extremely difficult to do with only american citizenship. But if you have a sponsor it makes this much easier and quicker. If all that works out, I might go even without the money.
see that? Take that America!
hahaha Bravo!
lol
For the record, Eleni's "allegiance" to Greece is not treason.
What I mean is, as much as Americans fiddle around whith who pledges what allegiance to where, the real rubber meets the road in time of conflict. There are plenty of loud-mouthed brayers of some patriotic form or another that would as easily commit treason for real - that being compromising the national security or selling state secrets. Treason is pretty hard to commit in the States.
Brew in part i agree. Much of what symbolizes this nation in the pseudoreligious / patriotic sense is military, but not even the real military my brother and sister are a part of. They may fight, yes, but they as often dig wells, build bridges (literally and otherwise), assist in disasters, these things are not popularized. They do considerably more than I ever knew.
And even though my brother and I may kid one another - I call him a jar head and he calls me a commie freak or some such (neither being true) - I have the utmost respect for what the people themselves are up to.
That being said, the abhorrent reasoning (generous use of that word there) for certain recent conflicts is not their fault.
This came up on Facebook recently my brother having been to Iraq, and he's not pumping for everyone to go along with the original decision, but he said there was a lot they were doing for actual people over there.
Anyway enough blather I guess ... I don't own any military garb, though a standard issue Military boot knife might be nice to have.
Thanks, first for referring to me as Eleni, and second for clarifying my statements. I was pretty sure that, legally, I was correct but couldn't say it with absolute certainty. As for my jacket, I hung it up in the closet. It's one of the few things I would never just throw around. I want it to stay clean, crisp and free of wrinkles, stains etc. Hopefully, when the weather warms up a bit, I can wear it when I go to Astoria New york. Actually, Independence Day would be the perfect time to do that. I just hope the weather cooperates. *smile*
Hmmm well I'm not at all patriotic so I'm bowing out.
Actually, punching out as O & a say.
Greek independence day, may be a time to wear it, U.S. independence day (4th of July), it would be an insult to the American people I think. You are born here and I think that one day everyone should show respect to the U.S. I do, even if I am only a temporary resident (at lesat for now), I celebrate June 17th, the Icelandic independence day .. although we do not have an army, we figured out we could let the U.S. take care of that, well, until a few years ago, now we just have an answering machine that says "invaders, we give up" in 15 languages.
Robo, agreed.
One of the very cool things about the stereotypical U.S. army dude (or dude-esses), is that they are the good guys, the ones who will stop to save your child from the well, or at lest to hook up with your daughter, shag her and give her gum before getting her pregnant and leave again .. ok, those are minorities. ;)
So they are always perceived as the good guys, and that is a precious thing to have for a military.
I think the 4th of July would be way too hot to wear this jacket, as it's more for the spring in any case. I can't say that I respect the U.S. any more on that day. I just don't participate in whatever they're doing. You made me laugh about the Icelandic army. Sadly, I think many of us are giving up too, though in the realm of politics. Between the protests, the huge economic turmoil, the strikes, the scandals, the fires in the summer, the unemployment, the stealing and the corruption, well, that would give anyone a headache! I really thought things would at least begin to change after the elections but they're only getting worse. *sigh*